Live at Pompeji

    • Jester schrieb:

      Sieht für mich aber nur wie ein SD Import der bekannten DVD aus...
      Ich habe zwar noch keine genauen technischen Informationen, aber ich frage mich, wie Du nur an einer Abbildung erkennen kannst, dass es sich möglicherweise nur um einen SD Import handeln könnte? Warten wir es doch einfach ab. Immerhin gab es eine neue Filmfassung und warum soll die nun nicht in HD gescannt worden sein? Macht eigentlich gar keinen Sinn! Und Universal ist ja nun auch nicht gerade ein unbekanntes chinesisches Unternehmen ohne Qualitätsansprüche... Na, wir werden ja sehen... ;)
      Martin
      [Neccropole]

      I don't need your tongue to cut me (Roger Waters)
    • Neccropole schrieb:

      Ich habe zwar noch keine genauen technischen Informationen, aber ich frage mich, wie Du nur an einer Abbildung erkennen kannst, dass es sich möglicherweise nur um einen SD Import handeln könnte?
      Wenn man in einer Ankündigung nur ein abgeändertes Cover des Director's Kack präsentiert, kann man schon auf die Idee kommen.

      Hajo schrieb:

      Vielleicht ja neu abgemischt in bestem surround Sound
      Du gibst auch nie auf. Jetzt hast Du schon die VHS mit Ping-Pong-Stereo, den Director's-Kack mit Ping-Pong-Stereo, die Quadro mit wandernder Gitarre und den Andy-Jackson-Mix ohne Surround-Effekte. Was schwebt Dir denn als "bester surround Sound" vor, so ein Surround-Overkill wie bei dem Quadro-Echoes?
    • Double Bubble schrieb:

      Wenn man in einer Ankündigung nur ein abgeändertes Cover des Director's Kack präsentiert,
      kann man schon auf die Idee kommen.
      Na, ich befürchte ja auch, dass es sich bei der Blu-ray wohl um den 'Director's Cut' handeln wird, aber das hat mit dem zu erwartenden technischen Transfer trotzdem nichts zu tun...
      Martin
      [Neccropole]

      I don't need your tongue to cut me (Roger Waters)
    • Double Bubble schrieb:

      Was schwebt Dir denn als "bester surround Sound" vor, so ein Surround-Overkill wie bei dem Quadro-Echoes?
      zum Beispiel.... :greis:

      Nein, Du hast absolut Recht ... ich kann nicht klagen und bin schon oberglücklich mit dem, was ich schon habe.
      Aber dieser neue Silberling bietet ja wieder ganz neue Möglichkeiten. Die haben ja die Originalaufnahmen und sicherlich noch ganz andere technische Voraussetzungen. Mehr geht immer.... :kh:
    • Hajo schrieb:

      ganz andere technische Voraussetzungen. Mehr geht immer...
      Das hat mit den technischen Voraussetzungen gar nichts zu tun, sondern mit der Absicht, was sie machen wollen.

      "Mehr" als die Surroundeffekte der anderen Konzerte nachempfinden wollten sie damals schon weder bei Stereo noch bei Quadro.

      Andy Jackson hat 2016 ganz drauf verzichtet, vielleicht weil es in Pompeji gar keine Surroundboxen gab.
    • Aus P&S:

      Ich kann nicht sagen, dass ich jemand bin der viele Konzertfilme sieht. Offensichtlich habe ich im Laufe der Jahre einige gesehen. Mein Favorit bei weitem ist immer noch Pink Floyd: Live in Pompeii, zum Teil deswegen, weil es nicht vor Publikum gedreht wurde und das Setting ein Teil des Films wurde. Einer der Gründe, warum ich mich über die Jahre hinweg zurückgehalten habe, einen Konzertfilm zu drehen, ist, dass es da draußen zu viele von ihnen gibt. Ich habe vor ein paar Jahren einen von Nine Inch Nails gesehen, das war sehr beeindruckend. Am Ende des Tages kann man nicht mehr über einen Live-Konzertfilm sagen: Man kann das Gefühl bekommen wie spektakulär und magisch es an diesem Abend war und hoffentlich wird das hier festgehalten.

      Steven Wilson
    • Jimfisheye über seine Arbeit an der Quad:


      ***Audio Lineage***
      Recording: 35mm Cinemascope 4-track magnetic striped print > custom-built playback machine
      > Digidesign 192 I/O > 24/192 WAV > ProtoolsHD 9 (Pre-mastering and mastering) > 24/192 WAV
      *Pre-master*
      This audio has been offset corrected and patched only. No digital processing has been done.
      *Working master*
      A conservative mastering job to correct the major damage to the recording.
      *Release formats*
      Blu-ray disc
      Audio stream 1: Working Master 24/192 WAV > Izotope SRC > 24/96 WAV > tsMuxeR 1.10.6_VoxMac > BD
      Audio stream 2: Pre-master 24/192 WAV > tsMuxeR 1.10.6_VoxMac > BD
      *FLAC audio files*
      Working Master 24/192 WAV > 24/192 FLAC (audio only, songs only, no interviews)
      Working Master 24/192 WAV > Izotope SRC > 24/96 WAV > 24/96 FLAC (audio only, songs only, no interviews)
      *DVDA disc*
      Working Master 24/192 WAV > Izotope SRC > 24/96 WAV > Surcode MLP > Discwelder Chrome
      > DVDA (audio only, songs only, no interviews)
      *DVDV disc*
      Working Master 24/192 WAV > Izotope SRC > 24/96 WAV > Final Cut Pro > Compressor > AC3 > DVD Studio Pro
      > DVDV (This is a compromised lossy format for the audio that does not work well for music.
      This is provided for those without proper equipment to still get a glimpse of the content.)

      ***Source Notes***
      This is a 35mm cinemascope film with quad L, R, Ls, Rs "4 corners" surround sound magnetic audio.
      This format used the same 4 channel magnetic audio tracks
      but not in the intended standard L, C, R, S configuration.
      This "4 corners" quad format was briefly used in the early/mid 1970's for more music focused films.
      The only theaters equipped for the non-standard audio format were in New York and LA.
      The audio on this print is severely corrupted and the evidence in the recording suggests it was the printmaster the production copy was transferred from that was flawed from the start.
      *some background*
      Production of film with sound involves the audio and visual content being separated during phases of production
      and joined back together at the end.
      This involves recording time code (basically a clock tick) on both parts so they can be matched back up later.
      The difficulty of doing this with analog equipment requires skill and attention to detail and even then the equipment
      can go out of sync and require multiple attempts.
      Here are some excerpts from a document posted on filmsound.org:
      From the section titled: "My mix sounded great on the mixing*stage - but my print isn't in sync!"
      "If the Final Mix Printmaster has been transferred or copied, be sure the copy was done correctly.
      We have had experiences where a perfectly fine Printmaster was thrown out of sync because a copy was made first,
      and the optical shot from the copy"
      "If the Mag Printmaster was in sync when you reviewed the final mix, check to be sure the film lab didn't accidentally "misprint" the soundtrack by moving the optical negative a perf or two,
      or a frame or two when they married it to the picture.
      This can easily happen IF THE HEAD POP or TAIL POP is not EXACTLY CORRECT on your final Printmaster."
      "If you printmastered in 2000-foot film reels, and FOR ANY REASON these reels were then separated and rejoined later,
      this poses a prime opportunity for sync to slip. If the beginning of a 2000 foot reel is in sync,
      and the last 1000 feet is suddenly (and consistently) out of sync until the end of the reel, suspect this phenomenon immediately."
      The instruction is: "You should IMMEDIATELY contact your post sound house and tell them what you've experienced."
      These instructions were apparently not followed for this print.
      *this 35mm print*
      I can only guess weather or not there were added difficulties due to the different implementation of the 4 audio tracks.
      Whatever happened, it appears this 35mm film was produced from a flawed printmaster.
      The 4 channels of the audio on this copy are out of sync with each other. More accurately, they are offset from each other.
      If slid back to their correct position, the tracks match up in sync with no ebb and flow.
      The offsets range from .5ms to 160ms and the channels are offset from each other by different amounts in different sections.
      The end result is a entirely unlistenable clattering train wreck.
      The 4 channel quad audio has clearly been printed to this copy 1 channel at a time and in different sections.
      Channels 3 & 4 have more breaks and sections independent of channels 1 & 2 with channel 4
      also having a few more than channel 3. The audio in channels 3 and 4 sounds noticeably inferior to the front channels.
      Easily the sound of generation loss.
      Channel 4 is a narrower tape strip than the other 3 channels (a compromise deemed a moot point when used for a single rear fx channel) and is noticeably grainier than channel 3
      but 3 & 4 still sound like a generation loss vs channel 1 & 2 quality. This film went through some combination of editing
      and reassembly and having audio redubbed with what sounds
      like maybe a final redubbing but only for the front channels (leaving the rear channels a little more spliced up
      and higher generation). Some of the break points correspond with points where
      the performance was edited (some songs were edited from multiple performances).
      I'm speculating that the printmaster is at fault because there is evidence that identifies this 35mm print
      as being copied from an already flawed master.
      There is crosstalk recorded on this copy of the film. Some channel 2 audio into channel 4
      and some channel 1 audio into channel 3.
      This can happen if the head or tape alignment is off enough for signal aimed at one track to bleed into the other.
      The 2->4 crosstalk is the worst for the 1st reel.
      This is the only really noticeable part unless you were to listen intently to the Rs channel by itself.
      The very small amount of 1->3 crosstalk is only perceivable during the dialog sections
      where the rear channels are silent. You hear the 2->4 crosstalk in these sections as well.
      This crosstalk was recorded from an already offset master.
      The offset audio in channel 4 comes in later in time than in channel 2. With channel 2's audio bleeding into channel 4,
      the result is a 'pre echo' when you listen to the corrupted parts of channel 4.
      But wait, there's more. Additionally there were 3 sections of channel 4 that were reversed polarity.
      The waveform screen shots include examples and further explanations of all this.
      ***Mastering Notes***
      There were enough audio elements present in multiple channels in enough places to determine
      the correct position to restore the sync between tracks.
      Suddenly the clattering train wreck turned into an amazing Pink Floyd surround sound mix!
      Now the main issues were
      1. A piercing saturation, especially in the cymbals, hitting at about 5kHz.
      2. A healthy amount of tape hiss along with a 12kHz whine.
      3. Some short missing sections from the beginning of reels 1 & 3.
      I dynamically attenuated the saturation with the Universal Audio Multiband Compressor.
      I reduced the hiss and 12k with the Izotope RX2 Denoiser by different amounts depending on the program.
      The recording was still very 'toppy'. I brought up everything below that 5kHz saturation point
      to restore the proper balance. Finally, since there's always some loss from tampering
      (especially noise reduction), the original audio was blended back in enough to restore nuance
      without sacrificing adding back too much noise.
      There was an audible pre-delay in a few spots in channel 4 from the crosstalk and offset issue.
      Mostly just the 1st reel in isolated spots in Echoes part 1.
      The worst artifacts that were very audible were carefully edited out to restore to original content.
      The parts of the interviews that are dialog only are mixed mono in front.
      The originally silent rear channels now contained crosstalk during these sections.
      This has been silenced during the dialog only parts.
      (Note that for the offset corrected only pre-master,
      these sections will still contain this crosstalk which will be noticeably offset.)
      The heartbeats intro was cut in 2 places. A section at 1:41.9 - 1:46.7 was missing as well as a short section
      from 2:05.6 - 2:06.5. The 1st 1:41.9 section (with leader) was spooled up on a 6th reel.
      The remainder of reel 1 started from the 1:46.7 mark. The 2nd missing section was found spliced together creating
      a jump in time in the audio.
      The 1st 1.5 seconds of Rick's piano were missing from the top of reel 3. These missing sections were recreated
      by recycling nearby parts.
      We are very fortunate that only such easy to fix (possible to fix) pieces were missing!
      Drastic dropouts and noises were repaired along the way.
      Finally, level corrections were made. Channel 2 was considerably hotter than the other 3 and more
      so for the 1st 2 reels.
      Correct channel balance was determined by a combination of noting max channel levels
      and observing surround panning consistency in the mixes
      as well as comparing obviously intended balances to the stereo and mono mixes.
      The level drops on all the loudest sections of the songs likely as a result of some compression or limiting
      originally done in post production to conform to the more limited dynamic range of the film's audio media.
      This was corrected.

      ***Final Notes***
      This working master is intended as a conservative mastering job to repair or remove the most distracting flaws.
      Compromise was in too little noise removal rather than in losing any quality by trying to hit a more professional standard.
      This recording could still likely be made to professional release standards with more time and delicate scrubbing.
      Some purists that would rather hear hiss than any trace of program damage might argue that nothing more is needed.
      The audio has the potential to be restored to higher standards but the work required is time consuming
      (and its easy to cause damage by taking shortcuts).
      The pre-master is intended for anyone who would want to remaster starting from the unprocessed audio.
      My intention in working on and sharing this material is to preserve it for fans of the recording.
      This quadraphonic mix of this film ended up nearly forgotten and lost due to changing formats and technology
      and originally being too far ahead of it's time.
      This has never been offered for commercial sale and there wasn't an appropriate format anyway until blu-ray disc and modern file formats like MKV came along.
      I'm hopeful that this might serve as a calling card to the film's owners and reenforce that demand exists for this version.
      If they were able to locate the studio quad master, combining that with their new film transfer for the upcoming official blu-ray release would make a great upgrade to this version.
      If the powers that be decide to forgo the quad mix for their blu-ray edition and instead leave it to be traded among fans, my intention will be to continue work on this master and produce a final master version.

      jimfisheye 2012